Lesley Coggins

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Bath, 14th October

Thanks Lesley! Useful info which I'm in the process of following-up. Much appreciated!
Like you, I'm currently in some doubt as to whether 'Durham' refers to the county or the town - my guess is it's the county, which would fit with a lot of the other Vane-related family records.

Regards
Neil Jackson

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Glasgow, 14th October

These are the servants -

HARDY Roger Elliott Servant 55 Butler Chivelstone Devon
MARSDEN Thomas Servant 28 Coachman Derby
COX James Joseph Servant 21 Footman Bishport
GURSTON Ann Servant 34 Bristol
DAVIS Eliza Servant 32 Glam: Sketty
WILLIAMS Ellen Servant 13 Burrington, Som.

Interesting that the coachman is from Derby - could he be a 'family retainer' or the son of one if the family had estates 'all over the place'.

Have you tried Alumni Oxoniensis or Cantabriensis as to be a clergyman he would have had to go to University. How about the Dictionary of National Biography - new edition just released.

Lesley

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In response to an inquiry from John Gowar of Redhill:

Bath, 8th January, 2005

Everything written above explains how I came to be researching the Rev John, but even after a fair bit of digging, I have still not managed to place John's parentage definitively as William Harry Vane, the 1st Duke of Cleveland, as per my initial hypothesis.

The thing which lead me to that possibility was a record I discovered quite by accident at Somerset RO's online archive when hunting for other Vane family-related persons. There is no direct link to the material, but it can be found here www.somerset.gov.uk/archives/dservea/default.htm
and then if you use the Search Catalogue on the left, and then type "DD\BR\lch/14" (without the quotes) into the REF NO search-field, the information below will appear. It says:

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Collection MISCELLANEOUS SOMERSET DEEDS

Repository Somerset Record Office
Level Item
RefNo DD\BR\lch/14
Title Bridgwater deeds.

Description House on east side of St Mary Street, containing 1 shop, 1 kitchen, 1 buttery, 1 entry and 3 chambers above, 1727-93; 2 closes of pasture, part of Racks Closes, 1796.

Families named:- Alexander, Escott, Evered, Kingsland, Mills, Osmond, Pinn, Pyke, Sibley, Stephens, Williams, all of Bridgwater, Codrington of Staplegrove, Thorne of Berrow, later of Bridgwater.

Copy will of John Stephens of Bridgwater, mariner, 1771, proved 1771.

Probate of will of the Rev. John Vane, rector of Wrington and Burrington, 1870, proved 1871 (natural son of 1st Duke of Cleveland, Chaplain in Ordinary to William IV and Queen Victoria).

Date 1727-1871
Extent 30
Format documents
AccessStatus Open

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Although the main topic, of the Bridgewater houses was not related to my original search, that one reference to the Probate of John's Will was what piqued my curiosity. I have done a fair amount of research into the 1st Duke of Cleveland (previously 3rd Earl of Darlington and other titles), William Harry (sometimes Henry) Vane, as part of my work into the Bathwick (Pulteney) Estate in Bath - but I had never, in all this time, ever seen a hint that there might be another 'natural son' other than the ones of which I was already aware: namely -

Child 1: Henry Vane Born: 6-Aug-1788 Died: 18-Jan-1864
Child 2: Louisa Katherine Barbara Vane Born: 4-Jan-1791 Died: 8-Jan-1821
Child 3: William John Frederick Vane Powlett Born: 3-Apr-1792 Died: -Sep-1864
Child 4: Catherine Mary Vane Born: 8-Feb-1795 Died: 11-May-1795
Child 5: Augusta Henrietta Vane Born: 26-Dec-1796 Died: 13-Sep-1874
Child 6: Laura Vane Born: 6-Jan-1800 Died: 23-Nov-1882
Child 7: Arabella Vane Born: 2-Jun-1801 Died: 26-Nov-1864
Child 8: Harry George Vane Powlett Born: 19-Apr-1803 Died: 21-Aug-1891

These appear to be all the children recorded for the 1st Duke's marriage to
Katherine Margaret Powlett (sometimes Paulet), Born: 1766 Died: 17-Jun-1807, Married 17-Sep-1787.

Children 1, 3, and 8 all became Dukes of Cleveland in succession after William Harry died, therefore, if the Rev John Vane was a genuine 'natural son', having Katherine as his mother, he would surely have been in line for the succession at some point - but I can find no mention of him anywhere in any context to do with this immediate family.

Which led me to thinking perhaps maybe his heritage was, er, how shall we say it? - less well-defined? In many ways, this would not be a great surprise, or even that out-of-the-ordinary. I am well versed in the first Duke's love of 'entertainment', and there was something of a scandal at the point several years after Katherine's death in 1807, when William Harry decided to take for a wife one Elizabeth Russell, Born: 1777 (or possibly 1783, according to a descendant of the Russell family who is researching
Elizabeth), Died: 31-Jan-1861, Married 27-Jul-1813. She was apparently the former mistress of Thomas Coutts the famous banker, and she was the daughter of a Robert Russell, market gardener, of Newton House, Burmiston, Co. York - not a particularly 'aristocratic' heritage.

At or around this time, a lot of the Vane children changed their surnames to Powlett (up until the points at which they were required to change back, in order to inherit the dukedom!)

Now, one possibility is that the mention of Rev John Vane's father in the record at Somerset is just plain wrong. In fact, this would make life a lot easier for me, and I could carry on ignoring him, as I had been up to this point, being as I was completely unaware of his existence!

Alternatively, if the record is correct, something somewhere is missing from my view of the family tree thus far, and I'm deeply curious to find out the details! I hope to be visiting Raby Castle sometime in May this year with the local history group, so maybe I will get an opportunity to study some of the records first-hand. If the first Duke of Cleveland really WAS his father (and that could only mean William Harry), then who was his mother, and why is there no trace of him in the official information?

I have a copy of William Harry's Will, and there is no mention of John at all, which seems unusual, if he really was a natural son. I do not believe his mother can have been Katherine, and I'm fairly certain it couldn't have been Elizabeth either - the Rev John was born in 1792, which would make Elizabeth at best fifteen years old, and at worst, an impossible nine years old! Although there is evidence to suggest that
William Harry and Elizabeth were 'involved' as man and mistress prior to their marriage in 1813, I have not been able to find out whether they were involved while Katherine was still alive, and in any case, according to the sources I have, there is no evidence to suggest that William and Elizabeth ever had any children at all.

So, there is a rather large hole in my family tree (which is at http://techno.demon.co.uk/Fitzroy-Vane-Pulteney/ ) concerning the Rev John Vane, and I have no idea quite where to place him. Although this information was not central to my original quest (which was the succession of ownership of the Bathwick Estate, down through the Forester family after the Vanes), it would still be very reassuring to be able to place him correctly into the picture - hence my contacting Richard at the Wrington site when I discovered that John was once rector there. So much of John's history seems intertwined with the Vane family (as I know of it) - his
birthplace in Durham, the fact that Wrington was part of the same Bathwick, Wrington, and Ubley estates once-owned by the Pulteney family, in the holding of William Harry and his other sons during the tenure of John as Reverend there. Yet, officially, I cannot find the physical link which binds them, and it would be good (for my peace of mind if nothing else) to be able to find it, and add John to his rightful place in the tree, if such place truly exists!

Any help you can give, or light you can shed, would be very gratefully received.

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Redhill, 9th January

Dear Neil,

Many thanks for providing all this detail. It'll take me a while to read through it.

I can offer only two things in exchange. One is that I've checked the 1851 & 1861 censuses, when the Rev Vane was living in Burrington and have details of his household then. No mention in 1841.

The other is that Joyce Smith let me have some notes from her and her late husband's archive, including a copy of a letter from Cmdr Michael Lawder, who was very active in Wrington village history and who sadly died last year. In it he argues that John Vane was the natural son of William Harry Vane, 1st Duke of Cleveland, and not of Lord Castlereagh as stated in the Dulwich College Register. From all the circumstantial evidence, I would certainly support that, which is why I contacted Raby Castle. Would there be any possibility of my joing your visit to Raby in May? Joyce also let me have a transcript of John Vane's will.

The notes are all in typescript. I can ask Joyce if I may send you copies, or we might meet up sometime to go through them. The article I've sent to the Editor of the Village Journal is attached.

I'm very pleased that you contacted me. I feel that The Reverend John Vane deserves a proper biographical note. Perhaps that is something we might work on in the future.
With best wishes,

John